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 How do you deal with barmaids?

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PostSubject: How do you deal with barmaids?   Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:05 pm

Something I've been wondering for a while, and it's a problem especially in the UK. Barmaids are frequently HB8s and upwards, and I'd love to get a phone number off some of them.

Unfortunately, here in the UK they do not serve at the table, but just stand behind the bar. Which means almost zero possibility for kino, unless the bar is really thin or you're leaning in a lot (which I think is awful body-language in the first place - right?). Not to mention just how damn busy they are when the pub is packed, but that's something no-one can do anything about really.

So my question is: are there any ways to phone-close a bar-maid?


I've figured out what I think is a good opener to establish attraction and familiarity, but I haven't thought of ways to bring it further. It goes like this:

Me: (chatting intently to my pal).
Girl: (coming over) Can I get you anything?
Me: (turning my glance towards her but not my body and flashing a big smile, feigning distraction and some hurry) Yeah, tell me something: how much is a beer?
Girl: (whatever price).
Me: All right. How much is it for your telephone number?
Girl: (laughs)
Me: (downplaying) Ok, I'll have a beer. (I turn back to my friend and resume chatting, don't look at her while she's filling it up. Just a quick "Thanks, sugar" and a smile when she actually serves the beer).

This always works wonders to predispose the girl and the next times I come over they're always smiling and up for a joke. But I'll be damned if I know how to take it from the jokish phone-close to a real phone-close. Whenever I tried to escalate to that point, the girls said nope (with one exception, but that was quite lucky).

Any thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:16 pm

I almost responded to this on the other forum too, LOL. I have several thoughts on this. First of all, please don't use this routine again! It is not getting your results and it comes across probably like every other customer she has. There are a few ways of getting hired guns to become more attracted to you. We have even wrote some material about this before.

As you noticed hired guns are particularly busy people and don't have much time for you to do a full series of steps. You also noticed they are of definitely hired for their beauty, thanks management! These are your two problems. Because of their beauty and the position they work in they are hit on more than most other women of equal beauty. Also they don't really have a lot of time to talk to you, not to mention it is possible their employer looks down upon them hooking up with customers.

Basically, you need twice the game in half the time to do it. So what are you going to do?

DHV Flash the Place

What is a DHV Flash? If you understand the concept of telling stories to upload DHV or attraction spikes then you'll get this pretty fast. Let's say that bartender you like is working on a busy friday night and serving drinks. You are standing with your back against the bar, locked in, talking to a few women. You start to tell a joke. You wait to time the punch line for when she is near you or looks at you. This way she sees the girls laughing and having fun with you. You have just uploaded a "Pre-Selection" DHV spike without saying a word to her. When you do go to open her and work her a lot of your work is already done because of her seeing your actions.

This could also include someone taking your picture with you having fun with buddies or with other women. When a flash goes off in a bar/club people look to see what's going on. There will be you in the center of a good time and women hopefully.

Since you are leaning with your back against the bar when she comes over you're already over the shoulder talking to her and can start a quick opinion opener if you want. Realize some of this is going to be interrupted with her serving others from time to time. Be patient, DHV flash the bar, and get the girl!

JON
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:31 am

Only 1 problem with that J. A busy club never has room for one to stand with their back against the bar. If its busy there will be people practically puishing to get their drinks
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:15 pm

JSmooth wrote:
First of all, please don't use this routine again! It is not getting your results and it comes across probably like every other customer she has.

Are you absolutely positive about this? The whole point of it is that I'm not actually asking for her phone-number - more like joking on the notion, which means joking with her precisely on what "every other customer" does. It doesn't come across as actually making a pass and it certainly built comfort the times I field-tested it. If anything, the delivery suggests I'm indifferent to/jokeful about the number-close rather than actively seeking it (or that's what it's meant to do). I've also found it was useful to start building a colloquial atmosphere with the bar-staff in general (i.e. it doesn't have to be done on your target and works just as well if the rest of the staff is listening in) and as a plus, it's elicited a good deal of laughs from my friends. Could it at least be useful to DHV/neg a friend/onlooker who is not in the staff?

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? If the general consensus is that it's a self-serving routine then I'll ditch it, but as a mere opener, it's had some remarkable effects so far and I'm reluctant to throw them away so quickly.

Thanks for the rest of your explanations! There's some enlightening stuff in there, even though it does require some pretty specific conditions (number of friends, size of bar, etc.).
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:30 pm

By the way, don't know if it's of any interest to anyone, but this seems relevant to the discussion so I'll just post it.



EDIT: And, naturally, the vid doesn't work. Link here: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=GzW9Wh9y_rU
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:37 pm

First of all, how do you figure this is a neg?

The problem with using it as an opener is you'd have to really be able to "manipulate" the social dynamic. Meaning, you'd have to really bring her mind back around to taking giving her number to you seriously. You are joking about it at first. Then you have to turn it around and show that you are serious about it. This likely won't happen in 30 seconds or even 2 minutes.

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:33 pm

L.A. Tripp wrote:
First of all, how do you figure this is a neg?

The problem with using it as an opener is you'd have to really be able to "manipulate" the social dynamic. Meaning, you'd have to really bring her mind back around to taking giving her number to you seriously. You are joking about it at first. Then you have to turn it around and show that you are serious about it. This likely won't happen in 30 seconds or even 2 minutes.

Thank you Tripp.

This isn't a personal attack against you or anything it's just that Tripp and I are able to see the social dynamics for a situation like this very well. The likelihood of this working is slim. Sure if you got out there and do this 100 times will you see some results, sure! Then again if I walk up to 100 club girls and say "Wanna go home and fuck?" a few will say yes.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:42 pm

Well, I had the first part of flash game done...but I must have forgot the fact that I needed social proof, at the same time.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:58 pm

Juice, if you were able to get the flash game done, you should have been proofed.

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:50 pm

L.A. Tripp wrote:
First of all, how do you figure this is a neg?

Well, if a neg is simply a statement that disqualifies you as a potential suitor, couldn't some casual flirting with another girl in front of your target achieve something like that?

Quote :
The problem with using it as an opener is you'd have to really be able to "manipulate" the social dynamic. Meaning, you'd have to really bring her mind back around to taking giving her number to you seriously. You are joking about it at first. Then you have to turn it around and show that you are serious about it. This likely won't happen in 30 seconds or even 2 minutes.

It's not intended for such short term effect. It's just meant to establish familiarity in the early stages. The actual phone-closing wouldn't occur until the end of the night, though I don't know how to bring that about. (There's a section in The Game where Strauss quotes another PUA doing something similar with barmaids, jokish at first and switching to serious later - don't have the book with me so can't quote it right now).

Points taken from everyone, anyway. I can see the difficulty of the transition from joke request to serious request. I'm still reluctant to just throw it away without testing its effects futher, so I guess I'll field-test it more on some less attractive bar-maids. If anyone has any other routines in mind as to how to close with the attractive ones, feel free to share.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:31 pm

Hey man, on the negs, research those more. The handbook explains them pretty well.

Yes, flirting with another girl in front of your target, works . . . which is part of group theory.

It's not intended for such short term effect. I understand that. However, what you are dealing with is a strict window of time because you're talking about hired guns. It's not like you have plenty of time throughout the night to work on them. Unless you really stand out for one reason or another, they won't remember 30 minutes later who you were.

That's why I said it's not effective for 30 seconds later, or 2 minutes later. That's about how long you could stretch your time out talking to her, if you're lucky right off the bat. If she's not busy.

Otherwise, you will be "popping in" here and there throughout the night, which also means you will be spending money, or with someone who's spending money. It would NOT raise your value just to pop in and out and hang around the barmaid if you don't have a real reason for doing so. It would look clingy, which is not good.

Is this making more sense to you man?

I'm not saying completely ditch the opener. That's your choice. If you can figure out a way to work it later, that's fine. I'm just telling you how this will look, how it will affect your perceived value (because that's what we're talking about, you perceived value at this point), and how to work the dynamics in your favor.

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:24 pm

L.A. Tripp wrote:
Hey man, on the negs, research those more. The handbook explains them pretty well.

Do you mean "The Mystery Method"? I've been working with The Game, Rules of the Game, Venusian Arts:Revelation and the phone-game chapter from Mehow's "Get the girl." I was told that Revelation covers pretty much most of the stuff that is in TMM, so should I get hold of that too?

Quote :

Is this making more sense to you man?

Yeah, def. Though picking up barmaids still looks like climbing a mountain on a bicycle. affraid

Have you guys done it in the past?
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PostSubject: Re: How do you deal with barmaids?   Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:07 pm

Revelation would be a good reference as it came out this year and is the most recent ideas from the Venutian Arts. However, the original Mystery Method would be helpful as well.

I managed to number close & Kiss close 2 bartenders and one shooter girl in about 2 hrs before. I am pretty well known for going after the hired guns in my venues.

This can be done pretty easily. It helps if you do frequent them more but it's not required at all.
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