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Sydrian
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PostSubject: Ex into pivot.   Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:59 pm

Are there any pitfalls to look out for with an ex as a pivot? I had a long talk with an ex of mine last night about my AA, which completely baffles her. She just doesn't see it in my personality. But she has basically agreed to help me deal with some of my issues in this area.
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:54 pm

The only real pitfall is if you two can't get along. That vibe will come across when she is "trying to help you".

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:29 pm

Getting along isn't a problem. Had nothing to do with us stopping dating. I think our breakup had more to do with her being self consious and insecure. I don't know how many times she told me I could do better than her while we were together. Other than the last week or so where I was tring to get her to tell me what was wrong, I don't remember arguing at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:36 am

Remember TO kino each other while out. Affection is not a bad thing.

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:19 am

idk, something about this spells out trouble to me. Is it possible it will be cool...sure, is it likely, i have a feeling its not.

My guess is she is using this as an excuse to spend time with you, and worst of all your mention of her insecurity makes me believe this more. I think as soon as your out and meet another girl, she will either lose her cool or cock block.

If you had planned on using her as an unknowing pivot, then sure id say that would work as long as you make it clear your just friends...but i think letting an ex into your dating life is a bad idea. What motivation could she possibly have for trying to help you meet other women?

Is it possible she really does intend on helping you, sure...but that can very quickly switch when shes actually faced with the situation.

Its upto you at this point, worth trying i guess, just be ready for it to backfire...but who knows maybe things will rekindle between both you, or maybe she will actually turn out to be a good pivot.

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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:01 am

Ka wrote:
My guess is she is using this as an excuse to spend time with you

Well, I am convinced that she wants me back in her life. Thou I'm not exactly sure in what respect. So far it's been strictly friends. Regardless of her motives, long and short of things I trust her for the most part. And she isn't exactly a "knowing pivot", not exactly anyway. The conversation kind of centered around my obliviousness to when a girl is interested, and her helping me with that specifically. She's not going to get violent, that much I know for certain. So even if it does backfire, nothing risked nothing gained right?
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:22 am

I agree, at this point its worth trying...but how much you tel her and the outcome you expect should be marked to match the worst case.

I was exactly thinking violent...but more along the lines of sudden mood change, especially when it gets to the point of her having to watch you work another girl in front of her. Possibly anger, sadness, crying, argueing...in other words the true feelings comming out.

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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:01 am

It is true. You will be hitting the jealousy switches in your ex. At that point, it depends on to what extent she wants you in her life now. However, I will say this . . . you can kiss her, you can hold her ass, smack her ass, even make out with her in front of other girls and STILL pick up other girls (easier in many cases) as long as your ex doesn't make a scene about it. THAT'S when you'll have trouble.

You see, when you're making out with one girl and seem to be into her, other girls will let their guards down so you can get "in" with them easier. Then . . . game as usual. If/when the question pops about the other girl, you can honestly say "she's cool with this, we're just friends". Or something to that effect. Many times the new girl won't even ask. Especially if your ex doesn't have a scowl on her face or some expression like that. If she smiles or socializes with other people while you game the new one . . . or even talks you up to the new one, any of those scenarios works well. I've had experience with all of the above . . . and then some, lol. If your ex is up to it . . . this is also a perfect way to a 3some . . .

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:19 pm

This just smells like trouble to me.....I would never take this chance, you might end up hurting her
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Sydrian
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:29 pm

I defiantly don't want to hurt her. I'll keep that in mind, and be careful. I do think she gets that this is something I have to get past, and is honest in her offer to help. Maybe I wont go so far as to use her has a pivot, and just stick to her helping me read women better. Even that would help me out.
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:18 pm

Wow. Am I the only one that doesn't see any real danger in this?

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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View user profile http://latripp.weebly.com  http://puas.open-board.com/the-pua-be
Sydrian
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:55 pm

There isn't an more risk than there would be regardless. If she wants me back in her life, right now it's going to be as friends. And if we're friends she's going to have to deal this same situation one way or another if we are going to hang out.
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:06 am

Personally, I think its a bad idea. However, you could always try it once to see how it goes. Its worth a shot.
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:52 am

I would love to hear why everyone else thinks it's a bad idea, lol.

Her going out with him would:
1. Flip the jealousy switch
2. Flip the pre-selection switch (in her and in other girls)
3. Flip the protector of loved ones switch IF he has to take up for her
4. Flip the leadership switch IF he holds court with a group

Her going out with him FORCES him to stretch out of his comfort zone, even if just a bit. If he's slotting her as LJBF then as he said she HAS to deal with that anyway, regardless. Even if they didn't go out and hang out, she'd have to deal with that. Maybe she DOESN'T want anything more than friendship with him, in which case she'll control herself easily. If she DOES want more than friendship, then yes it's possible this could rekindle something, but that's ultimately HIS choice of whether he wants to go there or not.

In this process, if she is out just to help him, and if she's single, then she can also be helping herself because SHE will also be more attractive to other men.

I could dig deeper into this, but I want to hear the other perspective that everyone else has, lol.

_________________
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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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View user profile http://latripp.weebly.com  http://puas.open-board.com/the-pua-be
Ka
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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:23 am

My main point is that when he is out trying to meet women, thats not the time to find out if she still has feelings or to deal with the ramifications of testing it.

Many possible outcomes could come of this; she gets mad at him for not "knowing" shes spending time with him bc she likes him, she gets jealous in front of another girl and cock blocks or does something to blow his frame, she gets emotionally hurt and he feels bad about it, she starts discussing his and her personal relationship with another person in front of him (essentially AMOG'ing him).

Less of a concern, he uses her as crutch and spends more time talking to her and less time actually opening. She says or does things that make it hard for him to portray alpha...like contradicting a DHV story.

Really the list goes on. The way i see it there is a proper way to make an ex a pivot...use her without her knowing your doing so (basically just using her for social proof), or really training her (would take a really special ex, ones who is really interested in the subject of social interactions and your positive that shes no longer interested in you)...

If they were truely just friends, there is more leeway, for instance my best buddies wife knows ive read some "books" and has seen me do certain things...and i will from time to time let her in on her role (let me put my arm around you, laff like i said something funny, ask that girl this question for me, say this thing about me in front of these people, in 2 mins come ask if i want a drink). But i do not train her on the specifics to why shes doing the things shes doin...she does them for me because we are good friends and she wants to see me have a gf. Also she has no interest in me, at least that she could act on, neither her or i would jeopardize our relationships with my best friend (her husband)...so there is no concern about her reacting in a negative way.

Otherwise i see it being murky and troublesome. I think trying it is fine at this point...but i would expect her to react emotionally when the situation presents itself that she realizes your gonna be with another woman and shes gonna be alone.

To further accent my point...lets say (and i do beleive) she really does intend just to help (i still beleive she wants you back).

Now i want you to close your eyes. Imagine your walking down the street at night, your alone, someone is following you. You turn around and you see its a man holding a gun at you...he demands your wallet.

Are you scared?

Probably not its just a scene in your head...you may even figure you can deal with it..maybe fight him off or talk him out of it...

Now consider how you react if the situation were real and someone really had a gun pointed at you...most likely youd freeze in fear, a natural and healthy human reaction to danger...and youd probably hand your wallet over.

So back to her now...she may feel like she can just help you with women...but when the situation comes to it, she may react much differently then she visualizes in her head.

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PostSubject: Re: Ex into pivot.   Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:02 pm

I appreciate the two viewpoints on this. I think I'll let things just happen. If she makes an effort, I'll take it. But I won't force her into to a situation.
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