HomeVault AccessGalleryFAQRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Cro
Apprentice PUA
Apprentice PUA
avatar

Male Number of posts : 121
Age : 32
Location : Iceland
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2008-10-17

PostSubject: How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and if that necessarily is a bad thing   Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:29 am

How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and if that necessarily is a bad thing.
Article by Cro and Checkers

It all started with a short discussion with one of my closest PUA friends
well over a year ago. The whole premise that accepting praise and
receiving positive validation, creates some circle of dependency which
a true man does not need, nor should want.
What if we work off the
assumption instead, that such validation and praise is in fact the
building blocks of becoming successful with women ? We don't believe
that taking validation is any different than "inner game" mantras,
where internal stimuli is required.

"Validation gives you encouragement to keep improving yourself, to hear someone say you're 'cool, awesome, a great guy, sexy, fit...' whatever. It makes you a better person because it's not just YOU telling yourself that.
You begin to believe it just like, when you believe you were a loser, a
creep, a dork... whatever. You believed it when you weren't a better
person, so now believe it that you ARE a better person...it is
reassurance, you just need to realize which validation to accept and
which 'validation' isn't validation at all" Checkers said, "every
day i tell myself I'm a professional actor and i also tell myself every
day, that i am going to be the BEST in the world at what i do, know
what's happened?"

He makes a solid point there, but I point out that's not outside stimuli. That's the whole idea behind inner game.
"no, but you know whats happened?"

"You made it come true, it pushed you to do great things" I add, seeing where he's taking this.

"Other people are believing it too, and because of that...my acting has taken a GREAT step forward, without me even doing any real training in the
past 3 months. That's something people don't realize (and i think, have lost) in this generation. they lost hope"

So quick fix solutions? We are too set on believing that there is one way
of doing things? If we accept outside stimuli, we're in fact
strengthening our support system? They believe, we believe.

So what if being outcome independent is just rubbish?

"it's a way to keep the person stuck in the beginner mindset"

Alright, I take the bait. How so ?

"Because, when they hear both sides of the spectrum, cool to loser. They wont believe it because they're supposed to be above being outcome
dependent, that is above what people think , dependence is caring about
what they think. I think people should accept praise for their good
actions and then also accepting responsibility for their bad actions,
and FIXING them next time."

"so any positive reinforcement goes right out of their ears and they'll still be stuck at square one."

We are in fact taught not to accept such praise, in fear that it might somehow corrupt and create a cycle of dependency

"actually, they'll be less than square 1 because if they didn't kiss a girl, get a number, sleep with her... then they'll be down in the dumps even though
the people they were hanging out with had a kick ass time, and the girl
just didn't wanna sleep with him or logistics prevented other advancement with the set"

You're right, the community doesn't seem to give much praise for the small things, which is relative also. They want us to think about the grand slam, being focused on getting to the end and not caring about what others think.
I've been told many times myself not to care what people think of me,
getting out of my head, as it is. But what if listening to what others
think actually improves me ? But that's a side note, let's get back to
the real issue.

I want to take some time now to talk about how outside stimuli has affected me as a person, and my game as a pickup artist. How I prefer to take such stimuli and use it to define what I want to be, but not necessarily to control me.

I believe that most of us come from the same humble beginnings, a childhood and teenage era where we have been put down, made to feel awkward and unappealing and our frustration with never becoming good with women lead us on this path we are on today. I was always a fat kid, rather
unappealing, round glasses and terrible hair. I spoke too much, I laughed at everything, I wore terrible clothes as a teenager, and I had this massive beard in high school. Just to hide how fat I was I guess. It wasn't all that pretty I tell you.

Since 2006, I started this journey and focused mainly on outer game, appearances, weight loss, peacocking and making myself attractive to the other sex. How ever my inner game was not up to par, I was awkward, trying on different avatars, trying new things every week. Still now, in 2009 I feel like I haven't succeeded properly. I have some doubts left, over from my childhood and endless bullies feeding me misconceptions about my
appearance. I still think I'm not all that attractive, most of the time
I think I'm still too fat....I know I should not be feeling this, that
somehow I should be over this. But I'm not. Some mornings I don't even
manage to look at myself in the mirror as I step out of the shower.

It's humiliating

I can't shake it, I try not to believe it, I've gamed enough girls and
slept with dozens, I shouldn't be thinking like this. It's not proper
for someone who has become moderately successful with women.

I step into the field. I've been doing my hair for half an hour, never
happy with it. I've applied more face cream and I've changed clothes a
dozen times. I don't feel attractive, and of course this will hold me
back. But every now and then I will get a smile from a beautiful woman,
and this fear slowly melts away. I will get a kiss or a number, and
each time a layer of self doubt and shame melts away. Every time a
woman tells me I'm attractive and sexy, something inside me explodes
and I become a machine. Every trace of doubt is gone, and instead I am
left standing completely and utterly assure of myself, of my sex
worthiness and appeal. If they keep telling me these things, must they
not be true? Am I not on the correct path?

I still have these doubts, but with outside stimuli I've managed to accept that perhaps things aren't what they seem, my ghosts are keeping me back and I need to kill them dead to be who I want to be.

Am I not who I want to be ? Of course I am, and I'm not afraid of validation. Despite countless mantras on the subject of it being bad, I need it to continue advancing to who I will become, to be who I need to be now to succeed in the field, to succeed in life.

'You're so damn hot', a petite twenty year old told me the other day after I got dressed in her bedroom after a night of sex.
'You're a keeper, gorgeous', a tall brunette told me as she squeezed my ass
'damn you're sexy' a beautiful brunette told me, running her hands through my chest hair after sex

Is it wrong of me to rely on these gestures? I tell you it's not, I'm not
perfect. I have my doubts about myself, and if others don't see them,
why should I ? Should I not take this praise as reinforcements to help
melt my fears away, instead of depending on them, they help me realize
what I need to realize.

Does it keep me back in anyway? No it doesn't. "it is reassurance, you just need to realize which validation to accept and which 'validation' isn't validation at all" Checkers said earlier, it makes sense to accept validation, proper validation to help you build up what you want to become.

What are his thoughts?

"Validation...it gave me the drive to keep bettering myself to go from having a girl only talk to you when she wanted a drink to having girls approach you with the intent of bringing you home was a big change in my regular night out. So, the validation that helps me is showing that all the
hours I spent learning this stuff and improving myself worked"

So you agree that, with a fine balance point, receiving and accepting validation, only helps you grow?
"yes, if you see how girls react to your pickup technique you're trying out,
then you're in fact seeing how the reaction (validation) is different
than what you were doing before so the main catch 22 is you're supposed
to find out what works in pickup for you, yet, you're supposed to be
outcome independent? it doesn't work that way, you can't have both!"

"when I DID get numbers I had a pretty huge failure rate with them because I didn't know how many times to call them, or when, or what to ask them to do, or whatever. So, because of the outcome of my phone calls, I changed how I talked to girls on the phone and how many times I called them from the outcome there, I changed how I talked yet again, to get them to call me"

So what you mean, is that being outcome dependent, helped you?

"yeah, in a club setting, how I acted over a period of time to a certain venue was either accepted and welcomed... or tolerated and frowned upon. When you frequent one venue over a period of time you can realize which personality 'styles' are ones that are embraced and ones that aren't.
All of that is from viewing how your behavior is seen in other people
(aka, the outcome)"

Alright, but let me ask you, what about how validation, on looks, mannerism, sex...did it help change your perception of yourself? Did it help kill doubt?

"I'd say that having a woman tell me I'm great in the sack, or having her call me both affect me equally as good....when
a girl calls me back and pays compliments, its just psychological
conditioning, you do something and get a good response you'll keep
wanting to do it, if you do something and get an unfavorable response,
you don't wanna do it again"

But you have to do it again, if you do want that favorable response

"That's why you have to keep getting good"

Exactly, so a positive external stimuli helps you grow, but only as long as you use that positive reinforcement to help you on your path, not be on the path to get the positive reinforcement. So using the ego boost to fuel your actions will mark your vantage points per say.

So it all comes down to you finding that perfect balance between needing
or using positive reinforcement, use it to further your gain, to scout
out what works for you, to set up a reference point for next time. But
when you start needing it, that's when you first need a reality check.

We are doing this for ourselves because we want to, that's what this all is.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://thoughtsofcro.blogspot.com/
L.A. Tripp
Admin
Admin
avatar

Male Number of posts : 4766
Age : 45
Location : Evansville, IN
Reputation : 19
Registration date : 2008-03-14

PostSubject: Re: How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and   Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:17 pm

Cro wrote:


So it all comes down to you finding that perfect balance between needing
or using positive reinforcement, use it to further your gain, to scout
out what works for you, to set up a reference point for next time. But
when you start needing it, that's when you first need a reality check.

We are doing this for ourselves because we want to, that's what this all is.

That said it all, right there. Yes, I agree, we do get validation from girls. And yes, I agree, that validation does pump the ego. The trick is changing the thinking and realizing that instead of over inflating the ego, that validation is actually a tracker of sorts, letting us know that we're on the right track.

However, I believe it's also true that we must have SOME internal validation of our own in order to BEGIN getting that validation from the opposite sex . . . or even from our best buds. I know that's how "I" had to start off. Over time I think that internal validation, that self-confidence ends up growing, both as a result of our own self-assurance and because of the external validation as well.

_________________
http://tripp-author.weebly.com for my new book!

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=504813617

http://latripp.blogspot.com/

www.latripp.weebly.com

Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://latripp.weebly.com  http://puas.open-board.com/the-pua-be
Cro
Apprentice PUA
Apprentice PUA
avatar

Male Number of posts : 121
Age : 32
Location : Iceland
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2008-10-17

PostSubject: Re: How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and   Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:07 pm

Yes, but what comes first? chicken or the egg?

Is the internal validation a sideproduct of external validation, or does internal validation create a bubble of confidence that triggers external validation ?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://thoughtsofcro.blogspot.com/
L.A. Tripp
Admin
Admin
avatar

Male Number of posts : 4766
Age : 45
Location : Evansville, IN
Reputation : 19
Registration date : 2008-03-14

PostSubject: Re: How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and   Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:44 pm

Speaking for myself, it had to be the internal validation creating the bubble of confidence that triggered the external validation.

Because, I can honestly say, I didn't get the external at first. In fact, it was just the opposite. I had the snarls, the get away from me body language, the nasty faces, etc coming to me at first. I had to get into my own head and get myself straightened out, or at least start to straighten out, before I started getting the external.

Once I got my own head on the right track, not perfect mind you, but on the right track, and I pushed my own comfort zone, then I started getting the external from the girls. That, of course, propelled me in what I was already doing.

Did it work the opposite for you?

_________________
http://tripp-author.weebly.com for my new book!

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=504813617

http://latripp.blogspot.com/

www.latripp.weebly.com

Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://latripp.weebly.com  http://puas.open-board.com/the-pua-be
Cro
Apprentice PUA
Apprentice PUA
avatar

Male Number of posts : 121
Age : 32
Location : Iceland
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2008-10-17

PostSubject: Re: How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and   Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:03 am

At first yes, then it became a symbiotic relationship

When my transformation begin, I completely ignored inner game. Heck, I hadn't even heard about it. For me it was outer game deluxe, I got a new haircut, new clothes, I started using face cream, trimmed by beard, eye cream which took years off my face, I bought peacocking items, which today are a part of my persona. I started losing weight and from there on, women started noticing me and liking me.

That helped to fuel my self esteem, which went from low to medium. Today it is high and everytime it drops for a short amount of time, due to some external influences, some girl will tell me how attractive/funny/amazing/deep I am, and it all comes back twofold.

So it's a game of ping pong between my internal and external validation, and it keeps me at the peak of my game.

So guys, let's start a discussion here, please chime in. What are your thoughts on this ?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://thoughtsofcro.blogspot.com/
L.A. Tripp
Admin
Admin
avatar

Male Number of posts : 4766
Age : 45
Location : Evansville, IN
Reputation : 19
Registration date : 2008-03-14

PostSubject: Re: How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and   Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:26 am

That's interesting.

For me, even today, it starts everyday with the internal. I have to have my mind right, or else nothing works.

In fact, I"m still tweaking my external. I don't know, maybe I will for the rest of my life. I have my persona, I know who I am. That won't change. But yeah, I still do things to play with my look . . . such as the pics of how I went out last night, lol. I mean, that one wasn't specifically on purpose to see how bummish I could look. It really was on the spot because I hadn't planned to go out . . . till my DJ friend contacted me.

But yeah, I still do things with outer game. And . . . even now, I wonder what the reaction would be from hotties if I changed certain things about my appearance, such as using things like face cream to take years off my face. I already usually look young, but . . .

Plus, shaving every day. If I did that, it might make a difference as well, but for me, if I shave 3 times a week, that's a lot, lol. Once or twice a week is what I usually get around to shaving. And that's just before heading out for the weekend.

Now, don't get me wrong, I MUST shower every day and keep myself clean, lol. I MUST brush my teeth or I can't even eat or drink for the day, lol.

But, outer game didn't come along for me until inner started coming together.

_________________
http://tripp-author.weebly.com for my new book!

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=504813617

http://latripp.blogspot.com/

www.latripp.weebly.com

Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://latripp.weebly.com  http://puas.open-board.com/the-pua-be
Sydrian
Tripp's Vault Member
Tripp's Vault Member


Male Number of posts : 173
Age : 40
Location : Kentucky
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2009-06-28

PostSubject: Re: How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and   Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:31 am

For me so far, as I'm still in the middle of my growth, it has been external validation. The external validation has allowed me to build the internal confidence. We say, of course to leave em better than you found them. Most of the women in my life have done that for me. For instance, at 19 I could not see myself as attractive in the least. Until one of the girls I had a class with showed interest in me. Of course at that point in my life, I second guessed that interest badly, but it did open my eyes to the possibility. My last girlfriend was the first one to really make me feel sexy. She took me feeling like I was cute, to seriously believing that the only thing holding me back from meeting the kinds of women I dream about, is "me, myself, and I". Ironicly, if not for her, I more than likely would not of started to look into the pua community.


Er, after looking back it looks like I missed the point of the thread a bit. Thats what I get for skimming it at work.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Cro
Apprentice PUA
Apprentice PUA
avatar

Male Number of posts : 121
Age : 32
Location : Iceland
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2008-10-17

PostSubject: Re: How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and   Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:16 am

Syd, no you're spot on, however the article held more points, but this is what we are mainly discussing.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://thoughtsofcro.blogspot.com/
Fortunehooks1
Tripp's Vault Member
Tripp's Vault Member
avatar

Male Number of posts : 849
Age : 35
Location : USA Fort Worth, Texas
Reputation : 1
Registration date : 2008-03-24

PostSubject: Re: How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and   Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:57 pm

Cro, wonderful article. I think there is a basis for belief in either camp. Dependent internally or externally. I willl elaborate moreso. segue. peace,lvoe and succe SS
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.myspace.com/fortunehooks
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and   

Back to top Go down
 
How personal perception is dependent on outside stimuli, and
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Personal Hygiene/Housekeeping
» personal drone quad copter....WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
» How to make custom splash screen in Unity 5 Personal Edition
» Personal Rooms?
» Yes, it is I! Tate Wild--bball star and personal celebrity!(no flash photography)(open)

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
 :: The PUA Beat-
Jump to: