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 Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.

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NCJones
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PostSubject: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:35 pm

What do you do for fun?

I hang out with friends and go to parties.



Depending on how I feel I'll say multiple things.

Sarcasm: Really, that's amazing! She does the SAME thing. I bet you two would get along really well, you seem to have a lot in common.


Straightforward: Everyone does that. Aside from party and hang out with friends, what do you do for fun?


There are a variety of statements you can say. All of which are just saying: you told me something that everyone does, that's boring, I want to know what you actually do that makes you special.


A common response to any of the above statements.
Well I work and go to school.

Responses I give to that.
Italic text>
I'm sure you get up in the morning and say "YEY!! I get to go to work!!! I'm sooooo excited! Then, AFTER WORK, I have CLASSSSSSS. OMG, life is great!!! Cause, work and school are very exciting things and all.

This usually get's a response like this
Haha, you're right. Hmm...well I like to knit and read. What do you like to do for fun?

To which I respond, somethings if I'm in the mood: I like to hang out with friends and party.
Which causes her to laugh and say things like c'mon, what do you really like to do? At which point I tell her something I actually enjoy doing, like reading about personality types [which is streaming with very accurate cold reads btw.], skateboarding, drawing [and I always have my DSi on me, which has an art program I've downloaded and a portfolio of the picture's I've drawn placed next to the source pictures....which will bring me to another point later], playing chess, video games, piano, etc. etc..

Come to think of it [as in I just thought of it], when listing off my hobbies I've labled them into 3 type.

1. Something I need NOTHING to display how it works [like personality profiles] and have other people involved in. Useful in ALL situations. Anyone here could ask me a bit about it, I can make it fun, If you read this
http://www.typelogic.com/entp.html and you think of Carnage [from spider-man], Dead pool, Ryan Reynolds, The Joker, and Captain Kirk you'll see how they all fit this type. Which is entertaining and fun, then occasionally someone mentions Spike Speigel. So I point out his is ESTP [which can be found on the same site, and show them that]. It shows that it works, I know what I'm talking about, and it's fun.
So, this type requires nothing. I'm sure everyone can think of something they do that doesn't require much to make it fun for others.

2. It still can apply to others, but you NEED something in order to make it happen. In my case: drawing. Which is one of many reason's I carry a DSi around with me. It has my art, and I can draw pictures with it, very detailed pictures. If they don't know how to draw, you can still draw them type of deal.
I'm sure there are hobbies everyone here has like this: that you need something to do, but you can effect someone else by doing it even if they're not good at it.

3. A hobby that you need something and generally doesn't seem to effect others. Like skateboarding. It's a solo activity that you can't really use to interact with other people unless you're really stretching it. At best, you can teach someone how [if they show an interest in learning and you have the patience.] Show's you do something with your life.

SO!
When you're listing off hobbies, I theorize it's best to use 1's and 2's. Even if you're unable to perform the type-2 hobby at the time you can talk about it and create anticipation for future activity. 1's are something you can talk about briefly in the moment to display you're fun, smart, etc..

Back to the initial conversation.
I started off by saying "What do you do for fun?" Which lead to a few more sentences before I actually got an answer to that. What if I don't want to hear those sentences and just want to skip to what she does for fun? That's when I say something like "What do you do for fun? Don't say something lame like 'hang out with friends and go to parties.'"
This is the same as above with a command added telling her what to do.

This is like entering a level select code [19,65,9,17 in sound test, hold A at the title screen and press start] and skipping to Hill top zone in Sonic 2 instead of playing the 3 or 4 level's before it. Because the response is usually something like I like to knit and read. What do you like to do for fun?

It's all on preference and how much time you're willing to spend. If it's none at all and you've already thought about what you're going to say, add the command. If You wanna drift off into autopilot and think about what to say after she tells you what she does for fun, ask the first one without the command at the end. I jump around between both, because skipping the middle means there's less set up for the joke response I hang out with friends and go to parties. The set up is there, it's just significantly less funny at this point. Not to mention some of the other jokes aren't there.


This isn't really an opener, as much as a way to go around the obstacle when someone doesn't actually answer your question. You simply show them they haven't and they've said a general response that you could program on an chat bot and you want to talk to a human being, not a chat robot. It's directly after an opener.


Then there's the last topic I made, pointing out the online message I've sent.
title: Just being honest
Body: I'd fuck you, but I'm not sure if we'd be friends. What do you do for fun? Don't say something lame like "hang out with friends and go to parties."

broken down.
title: have yet to break it down.
Body: [pointing out something obvious. She knows I'm thinking it, I know she knows. But she does not know that I know she knows. Thus me not giving her bs and saying this comes as a shock. Or: Honesty]. [Request to know more about the person]. [Demand for honesty, which I have given in my first statement].

I usually receive honesty back just as I have given and asked for.


Now, my questions and concerns.
In the online message about honesty it's clear that I want the girl, shortly after I begin to use all of what I talked about above to have actual conversation until enough topics are established to talk about. At which point I surf through when needed. But, I don't know exactly how to make her attracted [aside from kino, and voice tone]. I just get her to get to know me and vice versa.

So, I can attract and build comfort, but I'm not sure what to do to create seduction.
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:59 am

Seduction equals sexual. In other words, your mind needs to be in a sexual frame. You throw innuendos, drop kino, etc, escalating the sexual frame. The idea of sex must get stronger and stronger.

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You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:29 am

Gee, thanks Yoda.
What are some sample sentences of something more concrete that can be said. To be told that I need to have a set mindset in order to perform a set way is something I already understand, yet completely vague and, to me, of no use.

I can go one and on about ways to get into certain mindset's. Like my jokes for example are, a lot of times, inspired by me reading comic-books with spider-man, Carnage, Dead pool, and the Joker as well as watching movies with Ryan Reynolds...etc.

How this get's me in the mindset for telling jokes can be explained as my brain intuitively picking up on the basic principles of these jokes and their basic formula [everything can be broken down to a formula]. After picking up on this formula without consciously knowing the formula I tell jokes that are based off of this. It's something, that at the moment, I cannot break down nor explain other than say either what I've just stated or "you have to get in the correct mindset."

Now, if I were to break it down, it's more useful. If I tell someone to get in the correct mindset they're not getting any concrete information at all. Just something vague and yodaish.

What I want is something like a sample sentence or conversation that's something that will make a girl sexually attracted to you. We all know that thinking of sex and being sexually driven doesn't make women want you. Walking up to a girl and saying "Let's fuck." isn't as good as getting to know her, guiding the topic towards sex, then talking about it

Thus...What I'm asking for.
A sample of something you said that makes a girl want you. Not a vague description of how to think. Or even something someone else said. After observing the sample I can come up with a formula all on my own and tweak it and say what I want. I'll just reverse engineer to get the basic principal and understand why it works in my own terms.
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:17 pm

You're making this MUCH harder than you need to. You want to spend time reverse engineering this? The Venusian Arts Handbook is FILLED with information that was already reverse engineered. Take a couple of days and read through that.

I don't use canned lines for sexual escalation. Also, what "I" say I can almost guarantee won't work for you. I gave you the basic principle above. In my last post. Don't over complicate this.

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:52 pm

L.A. Tripp wrote:
You're making this MUCH harder than you need to. You want to spend time reverse engineering this? The Venusian Arts Handbook is FILLED with information that was already reverse engineered. Take a couple of days and read through that.

I don't use canned lines for sexual escalation. Also, what "I" say I can almost guarantee won't work for you. I gave you the basic principle above. In my last post. Don't over complicate this.

The first issue here: No money. NONE. I'm broke, I make just enough to pay for the essentials of life, like rent, and food. But don't actually have money to pay for those things. Often I wonder how it even get's paid.

With no money means no Venusian art Handbook filled with information I'm trying to gain by not spending money. Thus, magically acquire more money, my own computer [ARRRRR me matey], or stumble across this book somewhere lying on the ground or something I'm not going to have this information unless I do it the hard way.

2nd issue: It's been established many times by you in conversations between you and me that me saying verbatim what you say will not work [according to you, which I 95% agree with {along with my view that 5% is not a chance worth relying on}]. It's also been established that I agree with that statement but want to know, no what you say, but an example of something said so I can learn from it. This is because this is how I learn, through examples.

3rd issue: You said to be in the right mindset. Which is like if I told someone serving a Tennis ball to be in the right mindset when serving the ball if they want it to fall into the box opposed to point your forward toe at the post at the end of the net [if it's your left foot, point at the right post, if it's your right foot point at the left post] which will cause your body to be at the correct angle to aim at the box every time. I'd tell them this along with a few other guidelines about serving the ball that they'll use until they've gotten the feel of serving and no longer need it [say they want to serve the ball somewhere other than the center of the box].

All of that is more useful than telling them to be in the correct mindset, and I didn't tell them to serve the way I do.

If I had access to this book, I'd read it and wouldn't ever ask for anything on this forum [I'd simply post my finding's and observations]. But I do not have it, thus am placed in a situation where I actually have to rely on others for information, rather than the written works of others. If needed, just like what got me to where I am now, I'll slowly but surely do it all by myself.
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:49 pm

Jones, MUST you be so bull headed and stubborn? Hmmm?

First of all, do you even KNOW what mindset means?

Second, for YOUR information, "I" didn't know you weren't on your OWN computer, OR one that you could at least download a book on, now did I?

Third:
Quote :

If I had access to this book, I'd read it and wouldn't ever ask for anything on this forum [I'd simply post my finding's and observations]. But I do not have it, thus am placed in a situation where I actually have to rely on others for information, rather than the written works of others. If needed, just like what got me to where I am now, I'll slowly but surely do it all by myself.

Again, quit being so bull headed and stubborn. Look, we ARE here for help . . . but it ALSO helps to know all the details about a situation. You seem to have made some progress over all with your gaming, but it's apparent that your attitude is STILL holding you back from what you COULD be doing.

Now, again, point 1 . . . do you know what a mindset is?

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:39 pm

L.A. Tripp wrote:
Jones, MUST you be so bull headed and stubborn? Hmmm?

First of all, do you even KNOW what mindset means?

Second, for YOUR information, "I" didn't know you weren't on your OWN computer, OR one that you could at least download a book on, now did I?

Third:
Quote :

If I had access to this book, I'd read it and wouldn't ever ask for anything on this forum [I'd simply post my finding's and observations]. But I do not have it, thus am placed in a situation where I actually have to rely on others for information, rather than the written works of others. If needed, just like what got me to where I am now, I'll slowly but surely do it all by myself.

Again, quit being so bull headed and stubborn. Look, we ARE here for help . . . but it ALSO helps to know all the details about a situation. You seem to have made some progress over all with your gaming, but it's apparent that your attitude is STILL holding you back from what you COULD be doing.

Now, again, point 1 . . . do you know what a mindset is?

Information about me is known by me and not always be others. There seems to have been an unintended implication in my message creating a misunderstanding that I assume you know all this information and are psychic.
Thus, I feel I'll clarify this by saying: I don't expect you to know every detail of my life, like my lack of funds and computer, thus I gave you the information. No implications of you knowing such were intended.

I don't know what your definition of mindset is, no.
How do you define it?

The way I'd define it would be that if I'm in the mindset that I'm going to win a game I know that the compitition isn't worthy enough to defeat me when I'm doing my best. They have no possible way to win. I know I'm going to win. The only option is winning.

But, with the above definition I've given there is a flaw. I've met people who think this way, and have this mindset when they play games with me. It clouds their judgement and causes them to underestimate me. They're in the mindset that I will lose and they will win, where I'm observing their patterns, weaknesses, and holes in their defense and then exploiting all of that. I view it as a puzzle to be brokendown and solved. Which I guess would put me in a mindset that all things are possible, and there is a system and formula that will give me success, if only I can find it and use it correctly.
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:25 am

Before you can win, you have to believe you are worthy.
Mike Ditka

This is an example of mindset.

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:04 am

If I may, there are only suggestions that have worked numerous times in the field, that some of us rely on. For instance, the conversation starter question and such. I won't divulge it here, because I have practically forgotten any canned question that I could offer. Though, I may suggest just a generic, Do you know where all the cool people hang out around here?

Roots, that one would take with this question, you ask. If she answers no! You reply, of course you don't, we're supposing to be having a cool people meeting, but with those shoes, I see why we may have left your invite in the mail.

If yes, finally, my cool people radar is back on track, but before you disappoint.


Jones, keep it simple bro. People aren't robots, there is no 100 percent formula that will work on every single one of them. peace,lvoe and succe SS
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:04 am

L.A. Tripp wrote:
Before you can win, you have to believe you are worthy.
Mike Ditka

This is an example of mindset.
You're example of a mindset fits my description of a mindset and helps me out not at all.
Nor would the mindset above help me either. If I have the mindset that I'm worthy [which is something that I always have anyway] I still don't know what to say. It has changed next to nothing, just my attitude towards the situation.

Being trapped in a hole with no tools to get out, for example, with the mindset that you deserve to be out of this hole does not help your situation. You're tools are still nonexistent and you're still stuck in the hole, but you don't think you belong in the hole.

The only things that will get you out are solutions to the problem, not thinking you don't deserve to have the problem.

Motivation isn't even 100% based on this either. If you think you deserve to be out of that hole with every fiber of your being, yet everything you've tried to get out doesn't work, you thinking you don't deserve to be down there will not protect you from frustration and breaks and pauses to come up with solutions in between attempts to get where you feel you deserve you should be. The mindset that you deserve to be out of the hole doesn't help you.

Creative thinking and determination to get out will help. Even if you don't think you deserve to be out of it, but are determined to get out regardless, you're better off than if you feel you don't belong in the hole but lack motivation to do anything about it.

Thus the man in the hole hearing "you just gotta have the right mindset to get out of that hole." will be moderately irritated by the lack of substance the message holds and how that information doesn't help him get out of the hole at all.
If he's told "Try climbing your way out. Maybe dig through the walls a bit to build up something to climb onto." He may or may not have thought of this before, but it's less likely to annoy him as it actually directs him to a method that can be of use to solve his problem.

This is why I'm annoyed by hearing about things like having the right mindset. It's a statement that doesn't actually tell me anything that I can use to fix my problem. It's about the same as before when I used to ask a girl why things didn't work out and was told "We just didn't have Chemistry." Which was of no help at all.

Fortunehooks1 wrote:
If I may, there are only suggestions that have worked numerous times in the field, that some of us rely on. For instance, the conversation starter question and such. I won't divulge it here, because I have practically forgotten any canned question that I could offer. Though, I may suggest just a generic, Do you know where all the cool people hang out around here?

Roots, that one would take with this question, you ask. If she answers no! You reply, of course you don't, we're supposing to be having a cool people meeting, but with those shoes, I see why we may have left your invite in the mail.

If yes, finally, my cool people radar is back on track, but before you disappoint.


Jones, keep it simple bro. People aren't robots, there is no 100 percent formula that will work on every single one of them. peace,lvoe and succe SS
I'm not sure what gave you the impression I think people are robots or that there's a 100% sure fire formula.
I'm a guy that hasn't talked to a girl I've been interested in in 6 months. Haven't been laid in about a month [but the frequency is inconsistent and more "luck" than anything].

Situations where I do get laid aren't situations I create. They're situations I see that are already set up where I can work things out so I just go for the opportunity.

I can't exactly walk into a bar or club and get a chick. Nor a coffee bar, library, or similar setting. Store clerks, doesn't work out. So I opt for online, the situation is the same almost all the time. So it's easier to see what's going to open a conversation and what isn't.

Most things seem to work only temporarily, then they fade away and don't work for me anymore.

I still have no clue how to get a girlfriend, get a one night stand, or really any kind of relationship that's not a friendship. I.E. there's a girl I'm talking to now. I've been talking to her on Facebook, she's out of town for school. I have no idea if she likes me or thinks of me as anything more than a friend at all. I don't know how to make myself more appealing. I don't know where any of this is going, and it's frustrating.

So I try not to stay on too long when talking to her.
I don't know if what I say is a mistake or the correct thing ever. I just talk about whatever. She knows I like her. She knows I'm not the greatest when it comes to relationships.

I know I deserve her [because everyone is equal. Thus I don't carry the attitude I'm better than anyone or that anyone is better than me]. But this doesn't help me at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:40 pm

God, PHEW.

JONES . . . dude.

Your problem, is STILL you!.

You think now one understands you, everyone rubs you the wrong way, the world is screwed up, etc. Well yeah, the world may be screwed up, but YOU are the one that HAS to learn to work WITH what the world is giving you to work with. PERIOD. It does not work ANY other way.

Honestly, YOU don't understand others and YOU rub others the wrong way, but YOU are not or won't see that.

Do you even realize that you repeat yourself over and over and over and over and over and over . . . ahem . . . just saying it different ways so maybe to you it doesn't sound like you're repeating yourself, when really you're repeating yourself, you're saying the same thing, you're duplicating your responses, you're multiplying meaningless words to say something different . . . get the idea?

We are hearing and have heard you from day one. You're still stuck where you have been. You want tools? We've given you tools. There are tools all over this forum, search for them. For those that WANT to change their situations BAD ENOUGH, when the tools are available, WHICH THEY ARE, those people seek them out and find them . . . and USE THEM.

YES, IT DOES START WITH YOUR DAMN MINDSET, WHETHER YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THAT OR NOT. Trust me, and trust others. We have started at the bottom and worked our way up.

You know what? If you TRULY believed you were worthy of a girl, you would NOT be stuck sitting there frozen wondering "what do I say to her?" You would speak naturally and build the attraction and comfort. What you are saying "we're equals therefore I'm worthy", yeah, it's true at it's core, but how you're using it is a crutch and it's bullshit.

You mention creative thinking. Jones, TRY SOME creative thinking OF YOUR OWN.

"We just didn't have the chemistry". Jones, THAT'S FUCKING HOW THE GIRL FELT. "This doesn't help me at all" . . . like SHE'S worried about helping YOU understand WHY she didn't feel chemistry with you???

Quote :
"I'm not sure what gave you the impression I think people are robots or that there's a 100% sure fire formula."

YOU DID, bro. You are coming across that way. And don't say "no I'm not" or something like that. This is how OTHERS PERCEIVE YOU. THIS is what YOU MUST realize. You won't get ANYWHERE until YOU realize how OTHERS PERCEIVE YOU. I feel like this is a deja vu moment . . .

Quote :
"I'm a guy that hasn't talked to a girl I've been interested in in 6 months. Haven't been laid in about a month [but the frequency is inconsistent and more "luck" than anything]."

This says TONS about you. So, start talking to girls you ARE interested in. Figure out why YOU are repelling THEM, because apparently you are. Or you just don't have the guts to actually initiate the convo. When you get laid it's more luck than anything, yet in a fairly recent post you inferred that you don't have to worry about getting laid because it's there for you, in fact you've got girls all around you and are throwing your extra to other guys. So . . . how's that working for ya? A little honesty is helpful, dude.

Quote :
"Situations where I do get laid aren't situations I create. They're situations I see that are already set up where I can work things out so I just go for the opportunity."
So you jump in where another guy WOULD be getting laid, is that what you're saying?

Quote :
"I can't exactly walk into a bar or club and get a chick. Nor a coffee bar, library, or similar setting. Store clerks, doesn't work out. So I opt for online, the situation is the same almost all the time. So it's easier to see what's going to open a conversation and what isn't."
Why doesn't it work for you? You want specifics from us . . . we can't unless you give us specifics first. Think about it.

Quote :

I still have no clue how to get a girlfriend, get a one night stand, or really any kind of relationship that's not a friendship.
Why not? The tools are on here. Sure, the entire Handbook isn't on here, but there IS enough on here to simply answer THIS statement . . .

So, Jones . . . are you hearing us yet?

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:19 am

I am aware that what I say is a repetition a lot of times. I'm not skilled at summarizing.

I said, at one point, that I had lots of girls and was hooking them up
with my friends. At that point in time, this is what I thought to be
true. I had met a lot of girls through myspace off one line and concept
that seemed to be working very well. In the end it really wasn't. They
liked my friends and did not like me.

There was a girl I talked to, who had a kid and was self conscious
about it. I told her I didn't care, we talked for hours and hours. She
wanted me to meet her on a Sunday and it was Tuesday at the time.
Everything seemed fine, then I go and check my myspace and she's not on
my friends list anymore. I send her a message and it tells me I'm
blocked. I never hear from her again.
Similar situations reoccurred. So, at the time when all the conversations started, and I actually got a lot of my friends hooked up, I thought things were working out.


As far as the world not understanding me, this isn't exactly the case.
I think that the world get's a message from me that's had a lot lost in translation. People think in abstract thoughts, formulate those thoughts into words, then speak, type, etc. those words to communicate what they are thinking. I'm 100% certain I am misunderstood more often than not.
Like this sequence of events: I ask girl I used to have an interest in for a cigarette. She gives me one and I offer to pay her back later. She buys me a drink without me asking.
Later I'm talking to her and mention that she has a nice smile.
She tells me off and mentions that I think that because I'm buying her something that I feel I have the right to flirt and hit on her, and says she thought she verbally beat it out of me a while ago. Then she blocks me before I can send a degrading message pointing out all the characteristics she has that I find a complete turn off, and that I'm an honest person by nature and was giving a casual compliment.

Misunderstanding due to her being a bitch and me not conveying my message correctly.


"What gave you the impression that I think everyone's a robot?"
To answer me, is the equivalent of me asking where someone lives and them answering "earth". It's fairly obvious, and doesn't give the information sought after: What words did I say that gave you that impression?


You said that the problem is ME.
I said the problem is ME.
This information is also obvious and serves no purpose.


The mention of a girl saying that we just didn't have chemistry is to point out that that statement doesn't help me. I'm aware that when most people don't like someone else they dismiss that person and it no longer matters. They don't care to give that person an explanation at all. Most people don't know.

The mention of it is just that asking for help on the subject gets answers that aren't helpful about 98% of the time.


To get to the point I have looked around this site. There is very little that's helped me here. I've made next to no improvement. I get answers from you that are so generalized and vague I wonder why I bother to acknowledge them. It's just more stress to read it.


I've made specific requests for information that is never actually given.

A more specific situation is here.
I was walking home and saw a girl wearing a weird hat [if you take away that hat, then this conversation would most likely have never happened]. I say that I like her hat, and notice a guitar on her back. She says thanks, I ask where she got it from [because I honestly thought about getting one myself], she tells me. Then I mention the guitar and ask a question I already know the answer to "Is that an electric or acoustic?" [it was in a bag, so there's a slight chance it was electric]. She says it's an acoustic and her electric was accidentally given away. I ask how, and she tells me a story about it, finishes off by saying her friend gave it to her, who got it from a friend. So I joke about how it's like the people from snagglerock in the muppets. She laughs.

Then she tries to guess my age. Somewhere she mentioned that she's a multiple of 8, so I guess 32 immediately. I'm right. Then I ask for her facebook, and she doesn't use it so she gives me her e-mail and no. She invites me to an open mic., but I had other things to do, so I tell her maybe another time. We talk more and I show her some artwork I did and a few cartoons I made. She seems to like them a lot and mentions that she doesn't have the concentration to make such things [ENFP I think (personality profiling)]. She tells me I'll have to some and play piano with her sometime after finding out I play.

She gives me a hug and I leave, then remembered I heard somewhere that I should immediately text her something.
"Hey crazy cute girl!" I text.
"Hey sweet diligent guy!" she texts back.
"*smile*Sure hope you're single. d[-_-]b listening to music."
no more texts.

Don't know if she was busy, is ever going to text again, or what's going on.


That was tonight.
Then there's Erin.
Met her at a club. I walked outside to smoke and everything was quiet. I said "Sounds like a funeral out here."
"No, people would be crying if it was a funeral." This bitchy girl I know from a year ago says [don't get me wrong, but this club is crawling with bitches and assholes. I was there because my friend wanted to go since he was in town, which he is but once in a while. Other clubs I've been to {most} have a much more appealing bitch to girl ratio. The few times I go there I have the impression that most of the girls WILL annoy me to all hell. But even is the majority is bitchy and annoying, I'm there and I'm a nice guy thus there's the potential there's a girl in the same boat as me. So I must speak to everyone there in order to find her. That night I met 3 girls who were not evil bitches. 1 hung up on her man, 1 physically unappealing and 1 just right]
"I didn't cry at my best friends funeral, nor did most people there. We were all pretty sad and didn't know what to say really, thus silence."
"That's because you're a bunch of heartless bitches!!!" *puts her cigarette out and storms off*
I look at a girl dressed like a raver [I'm in a goth club mind you].
"Hi, I'm a heartless bitch, what's your name?"
"So says the heartless bitch, I'm Erin."
I ask her what she does for fun and said not to say something lame like hang out with friends and party. We end up talking for a while. I show her some of my artwork. I kinda like talking with her so I tell her and ask for her facebook so we can talk more.

We've been talking the past month about every other night, on facebook chat. After she said a lot of interesting things I like, and displayed characteristics I look for in a girl I told her I like that about her. One conversation we were talking about sex and I mention that I wanted to have sex with her, she's shocked until I said that it's pretty obvious when a guy is talking to a hot girl and likes her that he wants to have sex with her too, so hiding it is like pretending the sun doesn't exist. She laughs, and continues conversation.

She lives in PA. I like in OH. She says she's going to come out and visit sometime, but I really haven't the slightest clue if she wants to be my friend or anything more. Nor what I need to do to make her want to have sex with me and date me other than keep talking to her and just hope something works out.


Then there's a girl I've slept with.
I hook her up with a friend of mine.
Guess it didn't work out because she texts saying she misses me. But whenever I try to hang out with her she comes up with some reason why we can't.
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:56 pm

Why are you not skilled at summarizing? Does something in your head tell you that you have to explain every little detail, even repeat things, for others to understand? Or do you not understand what you're explaining unless you do that?

Quote :

I said, at one point, that I had lots of girls and was hooking them up
with my friends. At that point in time, this is what I thought to be
true. I had met a lot of girls through myspace off one line and concept
that seemed to be working very well. In the end it really wasn't. They
liked my friends and did not like me.
Did they know your friends before you met them online? If so, then yeah, they likely used you to get to your friends . . . but if they did already know your friends, they had no need to use you. Therefore, why did they? If they didn't know your friends before they met you online, but met your friends after you hooked them up, then your thinking is faulty here, because they met you with SOME type of interest. The problem is, they liked your friends MORE than they ended up liking you . . . but since you were hooking them up WITH your friends anyway, you HAVE to expect that to happen. So, either way, you can't say the line and concept weren't working. What was happening was you were working against yourself. Do you not see that?

Quote :

There was a girl I talked to, who had a kid and was self conscious
about it. I told her I didn't care, we talked for hours and hours. She
wanted me to meet her on a Sunday and it was Tuesday at the time.
Everything seemed fine, then I go and check my myspace and she's not on
my friends list anymore. I send her a message and it tells me I'm
blocked. I never hear from her again.
Similar situations reoccurred. So, at the time when all the conversations started, and I actually got a lot of my friends hooked up, I thought things were working out.
Similar situations reoccurred? As in, several girls said they would meet with you, then blocked you before they ever met with you? Did you ever personally meet with anyone while doing this?

Quote :

As far as the world not understanding me, this isn't exactly the case.
I think that the world get's a message from me that's had a lot lost in translation. People think in abstract thoughts, formulate those thoughts into words, then speak, type, etc. those words to communicate what they are thinking. I'm 100% certain I am misunderstood more often than not.
Like this sequence of events: I ask girl I used to have an interest in for a cigarette. She gives me one and I offer to pay her back later. She buys me a drink without me asking.
Later I'm talking to her and mention that she has a nice smile.
She tells me off and mentions that I think that because I'm buying her something that I feel I have the right to flirt and hit on her, and says she thought she verbally beat it out of me a while ago. Then she blocks me before I can send a degrading message pointing out all the characteristics she has that I find a complete turn off, and that I'm an honest person by nature and was giving a casual compliment.

Misunderstanding due to her being a bitch and me not conveying my message correctly.
Jones, DUDE, seriously . . . THIS is a jumbled MESS.

Ok, once again, I will repeat myself. It's how PEOPLE PERCEIVE YOU THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

First, do you realize you contradicted yourself?
Quote :

As far as the world not understanding me, this isn't exactly the case.
. . . . . . . . . . . . I'm 100% certain I am misunderstood more often than not.
Ummm, yeah. Yet again I say . . . how others perceive you.

Quote :

Like this sequence of events: I ask girl I used to have an interest in for a cigarette. She gives me one and I offer to pay her back later. She buys me a drink without me asking.
She's being nice. Possibly likes you, but don't count on it yet. Just ACCEPT that she's being nice. Can you do that?
Quote :

Later I'm talking to her and mention that she has a nice smile.
She tells me off and mentions that I think that because I'm buying her something that I feel I have the right to flirt and hit on her,
Where were you buying her something? Buy giving her back a cig or paying her for it? She bought the drink, right? Did you leave something out of this scenario?
Quote :

and says she thought she verbally beat it out of me a while ago. Then she blocks me
She thought she verbally beat it out of you? What??? What the HELL are you talking about? Then she blocks you? So none of this happened in real life? Face to face?
Quote :

before I can send a degrading message pointing out all the characteristics she has that I find a complete turn off, and that I'm an honest person by nature and was giving a casual compliment.

Misunderstanding due to her being a bitch and me not conveying my message
Whyyyyy would you plan to send a degrading message? Maybe in this scenario SHE is simply picking up on the fact that YOU'RE a jerk BEFORE you've gotten to that point? Yes, by what you say here, YOU are being a jerk.

Quote :

"What gave you the impression that I think everyone's a robot?"
To answer me, is the equivalent of me asking where someone lives and them answering "earth". It's fairly obvious, and doesn't give the information sought after: What words did I say that gave you that impression?


You said that the problem is ME.
I said the problem is ME.
This information is also obvious and serves no purpose.
What . . . the . . . FUCK?????? To answer you . . . blah blah blah. Jones, read below to see what you REALLY said and why I answered.

Quote :

"I'm not sure what gave you the impression I think people are robots or that there's a 100% sure fire formula."

God BLESS! Every fucking thing, for you, serves no purpose. This is ridiculous Jones. It DOES serve a purpose if you would ONLY open your mind to it. You know the problem is you. WHAT WILL YOU DO ABOUT THAT? Obviously nothing . . . because the fact that you KNOW the problem is you . . . serves no purpose! DUH!. Jones, what DO you do when you KNOW the problem is YOU? Maybe . . . ahem . . . CHANGE??? And for that change, don't you DARE say we haven't told you anything or given you any tools. How many times have "I" personally said it's how people PERCEIVE you? So, put yourself IN THEIR SHOES. I know, I know . . . "that does me no good, it serves no purpose."

Quote :

The mention of a girl saying that we just didn't have chemistry is to point out that that statement doesn't help me. I'm aware that when most people don't like someone else they dismiss that person and it no longer matters. They don't care to give that person an explanation at all. Most people don't know.

The mention of it is just that asking for help on the subject gets answers that aren't helpful about 98% of the time.
If it isn't helpful . . . because most people don't know . . . why do you bother asking the girl THAT question? You're right, most girls DON'T know, because they don't STUDY THIS STUFF. They just GO BY THEIR GUT, WHICH FEELS NO ATTRACTION. So instead of asking and getting irritated at the girl because she HONESTLY DOESN'T KNOW, avoid all that.

Quote :

To get to the point I have looked around this site. There is very little that's helped me here. I've made next to no improvement. I get answers from you that are so generalized and vague I wonder why I bother to acknowledge them. It's just more stress to read it.


I've made specific requests for information that is never actually given.
What "specific" requests? Canned lines? Yes, there are some starters on here. Do you ever wonder why the rest of the members don't jump in to help you?

And what do you consider very little? 2%? 20%? What?

Quote :

A more specific situation is here.
I was walking home and saw a girl wearing a weird hat [if you take away that hat, then this conversation would most likely have never happened].
That's called a "prop". That's the purpose of "props". To start conversations. Understood? It's a basic concept.
Quote :

I say that I like her hat, and notice a guitar on her back. She says thanks, I ask where she got it from [because I honestly thought about getting one myself], she tells me. Then I mention the guitar and ask a question I already know the answer to "Is that an electric or acoustic?" [it was in a bag, so there's a slight chance it was electric]. She says it's an acoustic and her electric was accidentally given away. I ask how, and she tells me a story about it, finishes off by saying her friend gave it to her, who got it from a friend. So I joke about how it's like the people from snagglerock in the muppets. She laughs.
Ok, so no problem here. You two are conversion, then you finally get her to laugh. That's a good thing.
Quote :

Then she tries to guess my age.
IF she did this on her own, it's an IOI. Do you know what an IOI is? If not, this IS mentioned, and explained, along with a list of IOI's, ON this forum.
Quote :

Somewhere she mentioned that she's a multiple of 8, so I guess 32 immediately. I'm right. Then I ask for her facebook, and she doesn't use it so she gives me her e-mail and no. She invites me to an open mic., but I had other things to do, so I tell her maybe another time. We talk more and I show her some artwork I did and a few cartoons I made. She seems to like them a lot and mentions that she doesn't have the concentration to make such things [ENFP I think (personality profiling)]. She tells me I'll have to some and play piano with her sometime after finding out I play.

She gives me a hug and I leave, then remembered I heard somewhere that I should immediately text her something.
"Hey crazy cute girl!" I text.
"Hey sweet diligent guy!" she texts back.
"*smile*Sure hope you're single. d[-_-]b listening to music."
no more texts.

Don't know if she was busy, is ever going to text again, or what's going on.


That was tonight.
Ok, everything seriously and honestly went GREAT up until the point where you asked if she was single. That's NEEDY behavior. You're jumping the gun. THAT fucked it up. Does THAT make sense to you? You see, give specifics, we can GIVE specifics. Make sense? If you don't want general vague answers, you can't expect to give general vague things and not get the same in return.

The thin with Erin went just fine too. The only real problem there is your not building attraction in her. You have to learn to tease girls, to sort of pick on them, in a fun way, to build that feeling that they can't explain but they feel attraction to you. If you were building attraction in her, you would know before she ever came to see you that WHEN she came to see you, YOU WOULD be having sex with her. Simply telling her you want to have sex with her does NOT build attraction, UNLESS attraction is ALREADY THERE. Otherwise, you come off as a creep.

So, so far, we have jerk, creep . . . what else?

Just hoping something works out . . . it WON'T just work out.

The girl you slept with . . . WHY did you hook her up with a friend?

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:28 pm

Logic.
"As far as the world not understanding me, this isn't exactly the case.
. . . . . . . . . . . . I'm 100% certain I am misunderstood more often than not."
Let's look at the first statement.
"...isn't exactly the case." literally means "less than 100% the case." If you take away the word "exactly" that sentence means that it is never the case or 0% of the time it happens.

This sentence state that somewhere from 0% to 99.99...% this happens.

"More often than not" means that in a situation where there are only two options one option happens above 50% of the time. This situation only has two options.

So the combination of both means that it's above 50% and below 100% of time that this happens. So there is no contradiction, but you did misunderstand what was being said, which strengthens my argument that I am misunderstood. Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:00 am

Jones . . . WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too over analyzed dude. People do NOT talk this way in normal conversations, unless you're talking other scientists/mathematicians, etc.

Normal speech is NOT this literal.

So, this is where and why you are misunderstood. Get this point?

This is ALSO one reason you are likely coming across as a jerk to some females.

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:01 am

I get the feeling you WANT to stick with the crutch of being misunderstood. Correct?

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:39 pm

L.A. Tripp wrote:
Jones . . . WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too over analyzed dude. People do NOT talk this way in normal conversations, unless you're talking other scientists/mathematicians, etc.

Normal speech is NOT this literal.

So, this is where and why you are misunderstood. Get this point?

This is ALSO one reason you are likely coming across as a jerk to some females.

To assume I talk like this when I'm having conversation is rediculous. But, then again, there's probably someone out there somewhere who does speak like this on a regular basis and doesn't know when to cut off computer speech or when to cut off social speech.

But the clearest point that I don't speak like this all the time is that this site is a research site for the most part. When people do research on a topic they use literal speech paterns to more easily convey what they have to say [which is WHY scientist speak the way they do]. Set rules for each word that everyone agrees upon that's written down in a very large book called the dictionary makes it so that while doing research, other people reading your research understand what the hell you're talking about.

Then there's the insult thing.
The greater portion of your post involve a direct insult. This doesn't help me nor you. It just fuels a childish argument, that I don't care to be part of [which isn't saying that I haven't been part of it]. We're both adults here.

To break down what I'm seeing, is an opportunist attack. Which can be seen in fight club when applicants are waiting to be let into project mayhem. If the applicant is skinny, tell them they're too skinny, if the applicant is fat, they're too fat, etc.. If I make an observation, I'm over-analizing. If I say something that can be twisted to look like a contradiction, I'm contradicting myself. If I say something clever I'm a smart ass. This is all this conversation is going to do. Have a finger permanently pointed at me, which would lower my impression of you. In my eye's you're value drops incredibly everytime you say something like that.

I'm someone who respects observations of detail, kindness, and usefulness.
You mention that I think everything serves no purpose. Nothing you said in this thread has been of any use to me at all. It's all very vague.
The other poster, who's name I don't recall [sorry other poster] gave a format and example of a conversation starter [icebreaker, opener, pick-up line, whatever you choose to call it].

To be clear: you have not given a shred of useful information in this thread. That doesn't say what you have done in other threads. To base my opinion of you off such a small chunk of information would be stupid. I've seen other post you have and know that you're smarter than this. You're a pretty nice person. You somehow manage to respond to almost every single topic on this site. Most of those responses have something of substance in them. I'm sure you have a life that involves a lot more than managing this message board, but somehow you find time to offer help to everyone here. So it's obvious you care about people. But considering the amount of time and the volume of topics you respond to I don't hold it against you if you're giving me very very vague information. You're already breaking your back with all the other topics and posters around here.

All this sums up to: because of the impression you have on what I'm saying you misunderstood what I had to say. Which is the equivilant of "because of the impression I had on how you'd percieve what I say, I said something that was misunderstood." Eitherway, we're both in part responsible for not understanding each other.

It'd be best to just drop everything, start from scratch, learn from mistakes, and be friends.
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:01 pm

Jones. We are going in circles because you are not listening. Period.

I tear apart what every one says, not just you. If you've read the rest of the forum, you'd see that.

Do you NOT think YOU are insulting when you say that what I'm assuming is ridiculous, or by calling me an opportunist, or by saying EVERY SINGLE POST I TRY TO HELP YOU WITH is useless? Are NONE of those things insults in your eyes?

Jones, I have tried, and tried, and tried . . . and tried to help you. Yet, every single thing I say to you "serves no purpose". That is an insult.

YOU my friend are continuing to go around in circles. In your own mind. I'm out "in field" often. I can "pull pussy" when ever I want to, where ever I want to. I can be in an exclusive relationship as well. I give advice from my own experience. I say things in an attempt to open other men's minds. Yours, Jones, is a mind that you refuse to allow to be open. Therefore we continue in these ridiculous circles.

I could be misunderstanding you, although I don't believe I am. You likely are misunderstanding me though. However, if you've truly seen my other stuff on this forum, you should have a feel for me by now.

Yet again, we stay at the same exact point. Every thing I say to you is useless. Serves no purpose. Fine. My purpose with you must be done . . . apparently . . .

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Alpha: "Come here, now."
AFC: "Would you mind coming here please, if it's not too much trouble?"

You have one shot, and it's in the first 3 seconds.
Make her qualify herself to YOU.

Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:46 am

If you get what you want when you want, good for you. That doesn't make you a good teacher. I'm good at piano and skateboarding. I can teach people piano very well, but will admit that I can't teach people skateboarding.


My friend tells me that I say the words me, myself, and I too much in sentences where it's not required which gives off the impression that I'm self absorbed and could care less about other people. I think about this and try it out. I got a noticeably different reaction from just about everyone.

A friend says that sentences with the words me, myself, and I when it's not required give the impression the speaker is self absorbed and could care less about people. After trying it out there was a noticeably different reaction from just about everyone.

There wasn't a mention to be in the correct mindset. There was no bragging about how good he was at social interaction. Just a neutral observation about a speech pattern that's irritating to him, and what it makes him think. He said that he realizes what's being said, yet not matter the context of the sentence is automatically annoyed by the use of I, me, myself, etc. when they're not needed. Even though he's aware that I am not self absorbed and care about even strangers I don't know he gets this impression that I don't care when there are excessive references to me while I talk.

This same friend has horrible social skills. He's moderately autistic. Some of his friends notice this and look past certain things he does and realize it's just mild autism. Other don't and get upset over quite a few things that happen without realizing it was just mild autism. Though he's not so great with people, he's pointed out quite a few things that are very helpful when around people.

There's a girl, Stephanie, that's friends with everyone in this local coffee shop. There is no one there that doesn't like her it would appear. When observing her behavior it's noticed that she'll get annoyed by people, but deals with each one as an individual case. A guy sits down who doesn't understand basic conversation or personal space.

His speech pattern resembles an interrogator [direct and leading questions]. She's annoyed, but instead of dismissing him as everyone else did before [one guy was nice to him, but claimed he had to leave and ended up just moving to a different table], she asks open ended questions. And throws in a few opinion questions in there. Eventually the guy had to go, but when he did she appeared relieved. She was annoyed but she's a very caring person and wasn't going to dismiss him like everyone else does, or make him feel shitty like the other girl at the table tried to do.

The observation was useful in understanding that she's well liked because she's nice to everyone and individually looks at each person. She also makes up for what others are lacking when she talks with them.


Keep in mind I am not saying what you have to say is useless in an attempt to be insulting, but I'm sure you already knew this. What I ask for usually reflects how I learn. I'm well aware of my learning habits.

I often ask for examples of others works. I look at it and learn from it. In the world of art observing the penciling in a sketch someone else drew has proven very useful for forming idea's on how and what I can draw. There are the basic's, cross hatching for shade, stippling, etc., which other artist use in their own way to make an advance on the basics and reflect their own style. Someone draws the black outline of spider-man's eyes as a series of vertical lines leaving a section empty to resemble a shine. It gives the impression that the grain of the rubber flows this way, I see this and understand that drawing a series of lines in a set direction makes it appear as if the grain is going that way. I don't directly copy and start drawing pictures of spidey's eye's using the say technique I learned from this example to draw the same example. I draw something else, using the same technique.

Thus I'm inclined to ask someone who's good at something about their experiences and for examples. You've said that you're examples wont help me, but this is not true. They will, I won't even say verbatim what's been said.

What I'm saying, is that mindset's don't help me. I'm very introverted and very into my head, imagination, etc. etc.. Moving things around and organizing upstairs isn't an issue for me. But this mental self control is a double edged sword. If you've got enough control over something it means it has little control over you.

"Make her qualify herself to YOU."
Looks like a sentence used to put someone in various forms of mind. Girl must be good enough for you, you wont go with just any girl, etc. etc.. I've had this ingrained in my skull since as far as I can remember. I've never once been the desperate guy who'll fuck anyone that's willing. This didn't help me get girls as much as it limited my choices. But I know exactly why this didn't work to my favor.

It's not expressed. It's in my head and stays there. It didn't show with implications in what was said [I.E. the implication someone's a kind caring person expressed through a story they tell that displays an act that's kind and caring rather them just being hyper afc and saying "I'm a kind caring person."]. So at this point, it only helps if girl put two and two together and notice that all the girls I talk to have set traits. Or if it's asked why there's an interest in a set girl.

This WAS the case with "Make her qualify herself to YOU."
It is something that's steadily improving as I find more things to say and do that display this is how I feel [i.e. "What do you do for fun? Don't say something lame like "hang out with friends and party." Displays the speaker feels that not all answers are equal, somethings will qualify and keep the speaker interested, other things will have the opposite effect.].

With Erin, the girl from PA, it's been expressed that she had to prove she was worth it to me. It was also expressed that she did that [this is the tricky part I wonder about]. I started off asking the sample question from the paragraph above in person. Later while I was talking to her online and mentioned during a conversation that I wanted to sleep with her she's initially shocked till I explain it as "An attractive girl is talking to guy who's already interested in her [throughout the past few days it was implied there was an interest because she's smart, funny, and a little weird {in a good way}] chances are he wants to sleep with her too." Which implies that I did not feel this way when I initially met her, but after getting to know her.

This was a very unorthodox way to express that I'm going to "Make her qualify herself to ME."

"Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!" is something I don't really do. I do half of it. I don't back down from girls, but I don't intentionally challenge them. Though, they are being challenged [but are unaware of it, because it serves a function to make sure they don't know.]. That same girl Erin I met in a goth club where I am annoyed by just about every girl there. I simply start a conversation with each girl. If they display they're irritating to me, I politely find an out [unless they're just plain rude] and start a conversation with someone else. Their challenge is "show me, you're not fake and superficial like most of the girls who come here." but they aren't aware of it, because if they were superficial and fake, interested in me, and aware I was looking to see if they were, they'd definitely try to hide that part of their self.

So, "Don't back down from the girl. CHALLENGE her!" doesn't help me attract women at all, the way I use it. It's just used as a filtering system to weed out the ones I really don't want from the ones I think are amazing.

But it's possible I just haven't found a way to use this concept without jeopardizing my desire to know if they're superficial and fake or not.

And neither doesn't the mindset that I'm worthy. Thinking I'm worthy doesn't guide me much because I've never thought I wasn't good enough for anyone or anything, so I've always felt this way. I have, however, noticed others think I'm not good enough, which usually pissed me off. In the past resulting in some form of anger because it pisses me off that someone would think that way. It also is reflected when I'm cheering up friends or talking to girls by never telling them they're not good enough, but bringing them up and telling them positive things.

I can see how lacking this would make me shy away and think I'm just not good enough. But even if you think you are, you still need to have something to say. Thinking you're worthy doesn't make you automatically know what to say to people. I may help you have little fear and lack approach anxiety, but it still doesn't give you the correct words to say [well, a good thing to say].

So, two guys. Both know they're good enough for anyone. One has more social skill and know how than the other.
Instance one.
Guy 1 approaches a girl and tells her she's hot and he wants to fuck her brains out. She slaps him in the face and storms off.
Guy 2 approaches a girl and compliments her unique sense of fashion, then asks an open ended question, which leads into a conversation and eventually into her bedroom where he fucks her brains out.
Both guys had the mindset they were good enough.

Instance two.
Guy 1 see girl, and remembers the last few times. He's aware that approach didn't work, So he uses the time it takes him to walk over to her to think up something other than what didn't work. He says hello, and say's she's got a nice smile. She says thank you and talks momentarily, but his conversation bores her so she finds an out and leaves.
Guy 2 is somewhere banging Guy 1's mother because he's Guy 1's new daddy.

They still have the same mindset they're good enough, and that they're worthy. But Guy 2 actually knows how to make a girl horny and Guy 1 doesn't.
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:02 am

Okay.. Hey NCJones.... Tripp asked me to read over this thread n see what I thought and if I could offer you any suggestions.... Honestly.. I have tried to read your thread three separate times and I just cannot get through it to save my life... I start getting a headache halfway down the page.. It is so wordy... Do you talk like this in person? Analyze everything like this in person? I hope not lol... I can't comment on much, but I will comment on what I do know...

Tripp cannot give you some lines to feed to a girl to seduce her... Something he has said in the past etc... He and I are just alike... we go off of the situation and work with what we have going on in that specific moment... He said u can read the Venusian Arts Handbook and it will tell you, but you said you don't have access to it.. Okay... simple fix there...no need for u two to get into all that which I also had to stop reading lol...You obviously access a computer at some point so just do some research online to come up with some lines/examples..

Here's a few things I found online to get u started:

First of all, you need to send suggestive texts. It would also help if you came up with a personal..

Then, refer to an amazing quality of hers that you might have noticed when you first met. Describe the color of her eyes or the smell of her perfume, for example.

After exchanging several text messages, and teasing and flirting to your satisfaction, it would be high time to ask her on that date. Do so casually to avoid scaring her away, though. Make sure you don't actually "ask" her, either, so she doesn't get to say 'no'. Simply phrase the request in the form of statement, like "We're seeing a movie this weekend."

Something I personally like guys to do after I get to know them a little better... text me in the morn so I know they r thinkin about me... and text me anytime telling me they wish they were there with me instead of texting bcz they want to _______ (and fill in the blank... there are many different things you can say there..)

WHATEVER you do... if u are wanting to seduce a woman.. do not come across as needy or clingy... don't ask her if she wants to do something with u, but tell her she's going to...

I hope this helps.. and please please stop with over analytical and wordy posts... Like Tripp said.. people don't normally talk that way... and I don't mean that offensively.. I'm just trying to let you know that it makes everyone else not want to read it...
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:55 am

You said to say you're going to do things rather than ask. You also mentioned that ripping off someone else's material work.

things other's said
There are more than one example. Either read the first one and skip to the next bold print, or read all of them. The first gives a general idea what I'm saying, all give a greater idea.
"....What do you do for fun and don't say something lame like party and hang out with friends...."
Found in the middle of something said by someone else [doesn't matter, but it was someone posting a message on myspace between him and a girl].

I've said it verbatim. It worked.
I reworded it to how I speak and said it. It worked better.
This is why I ask for examples.

"Nice earings, your boyfriend must really like that."
-Charles, my best friend who always gets the girls [a natural].

"[compliment], your boyfriend [phrase showing appreciation]"
-Me
I don't say the above verbatim. I fill in the gaps. I've found guidelines that work with it. The compliment rules learned here didn't seem to apply with Charles, so I ignored them. I can say nice ass, or tits as long as it's at the correct time [which is the part you gotta use judgment for]. But it's important to say something that YOU actually like about the girl.

Charles mentions the boyfriend because it's a way of finding out if she has one without asking. I think that it also serves the purpose of saying that he thinks that part of her is something that makes her worth dating [which everyone likes to hear].

This is another thing I've ripped off someone else that works for me.
There are several phrases I say that I got from others, but they're not verbatim from what I heard.

computer logic speak
NO, I do not speak like a computer in person at all times. Not even most of the time. It's less than 10% of the time I speak like it.
When someone says a statement with a hidden insult, I speak like a computer in response to the hidden insult [The goal is to be calm and sound neutral, neither offensive nor offended].
"If you loved me you'd buy me [shiny expensive things]!" has a hidden insult.
In a calm voice with a logic driven speech pattern one could say "When did you get the impression I didn't love you?"
Personally I'd say "If you think money spent on [shiny expensive things] is the only way I can express my love to you chances are I don't love you." [but people who feel that way are generally people I don't want in my life].

Other times I speak like a computer are mostly in writing while explaining things or giving information.

saying we're doing thing, rather than asking if you'll do it
This goes back to the first point. I steal material from people, reword it to fit myself, and use it. In order to reword something you have to have the general idea of it.

"We're going to the park today :]"
[plural me and you] + [future tense activity]
You're coming to the art show with me
We're going to go to Cedar Point together
You and me are gonna go eat at [fancy new restaurant with fancy food].
I'm taking you ice skating for the first time
Etc.

All of the above sentences have been created using "We're going to the park today."

why am I asking for material here when my best friend is a pimp?
I don't see him as much. I don't have contact with the guy. We'll see each other eventually, but now, not really. When we did hang out, there was a regular observation of how he talks to chicks. What he said that worked, I remembered, reworded, and said later. But I've forgotten a lot of it. I only remember the bits that really worked for me.

Speaking of me, well people like me, here's what I learned yesterday.

Honesty is amazing IF you're intentions were correct.
the story about honesty
I'm always honest with people, because I fucking hate being lied to. But here's the list of characteristics I have naturally that worked last night.
-I see everyone as equals
-I value kindness
-I look out for my friends
-I want and give honesty
-I'm not afraid of anyone or thing
-I'm playful by nature
-Oh, and I'm smart.

At some point in the day there's a girl I kinda know who looks upset sitting outside by herself. She looks sad, so I go and talk to her. She tells me about her ex-boyfriend, her living situation, this guy she's got a crush on blah blah blah. Sounds afc of me to listen, but I'm a nice person who cares about my friend. I'm wondering, while she's venting, if I even like her. Somewhere in this mess I'm asked if I can keep a secret. I say yes, because I can. She tells me a lot of things about people that should not be repeated [and will not] blah blah blah.

I suggest a walk and we go on one, while walking She looks up at the sky and asks if I know about the stars. So I point out a few I knew, but say it's much more fun to make up constellations and show her the cauliflower cluster, and the Turkey Constellation. She laughs.

And....damn she's calling me now, I gtg.
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PostSubject: Re: Conversations I've had, observations and breakdowns. Advice both given and requested.   

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